Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

01/19/2005 01:00 PM House RESOURCES


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01:05:57 PM Start
01:07:49 PM Alaska Department of Fish & Game (adf&g)
02:15:02 PM Department of Natural Resources
03:00:15 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ <Joint House and Senate> TELECONFERENCED
Overviews: Dept of Fish and Game
Dept of Natural Resources
Natural Gas 101
-- Teleconference <Listen Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                         JOINT MEETING                                                                                        
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        January 19, 2005                                                                                        
                           1:05 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE RESOURCES                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
 Representative Jay Ramras, Co-Chair                                                                                            
 Representative Ralph Samuels, Co-Chair                                                                                         
 Representative Jim Elkins                                                                                                      
 Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                      
 Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                
 Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                      
 Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                     
 Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATE RESOURCES                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
 Senator Thomas Wagoner, Chair                                                                                                  
 Senator Ralph Seekins, Vice Chair                                                                                              
 Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                            
 Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE RESOURCES                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
 Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATE RESOURCES                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
 Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                             
 Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                              
 Senator Gretchen Guess                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEWS:  ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME; DEPARTMENT OF                                                                   
NATURAL RESOURCES                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NATURAL GAS 101                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD BUT NOT RECORDED                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE REGELIN, Acting Commissioner                                                                                              
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of ADF&G's mission                                                                   
and budget.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOUG MECUM, Director                                                                                                            
Division of Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of the Division of                                                                   
Commercial Fisheries of ADF&G.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
KELLY HEPLER, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Sport Fish                                                                                                          
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of the Division of                                                                   
Sport Fish of ADF&G.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MATT ROBUS, Director                                                                                                            
Division of Wildlife Conservation                                                                                               
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of the Division of                                                                   
Wildlife Conservation of ADF&G.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
LANDA BAILY, Executive Director                                                                                                 
Board of Game                                                                                                                   
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of the Boards Support                                                                
Section of ADF&G.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TOM IRWIN, Commissioner                                                                                                         
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of DNR.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RALPH SAMUELS called the  joint meeting of the House and                                                             
Senate  Resources Standing  Committees  to order  at 1:05:57  PM.                                                             
Senators  Wagoner,  Seekins,  and  Stedman;  and  Representatives                                                               
Ramras, Samuels, Elkins, LeDoux,  Olson, Seaton, and Kapsner were                                                               
present  at   the  call  to   order.  Senator  Ben   Stevens  and                                                               
Representative Gatto arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME (ADF&G)                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE REGELIN,  Acting Commissioner, Alaska Department  of Fish &                                                               
Game  (ADF&G),  introduced  department  staff  who  were  in  the                                                               
audience.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:07:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTING COMMISSIONER REGELIN  stated that the mission  of ADF&G is                                                               
to maintain  resources and  manage for the  economy and  the well                                                               
being of the people of  the state, consistent with the principles                                                               
of  sustained  yield.  The department  has  about  850  full-time                                                               
employees and about the same  number of seasonal staff located in                                                               
44 communities  throughout Alaska.   The  budget request  is just                                                               
over  $150  million, including  $31.4  million  from the  general                                                               
fund.  He  noted that the general fund makes  up about 21 percent                                                               
of the  budget, and  federal funds comprise  about 40  percent of                                                               
the department's budget.   Some of the federal  funds are secure,                                                               
and some depend on annual appropriations from Congress.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:09:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTING  COMMISSIONER  REGELIN  related  that  the  commissioner's                                                               
office has 11  employees who, among other  duties, participate in                                                               
numerous  councils  and  organizations  and  coordinate  Alaska's                                                               
participation    in    interjurisdictional   forums,    including                                                               
international  fisheries  initiatives,   congressional  fish  and                                                               
wildlife legislation, and endangered species issues.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:10:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  asked how  the department is  defining its                                                               
missions and measures.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ACTING COMMISSIONER  REGELIN said  the department has  spent much                                                               
time  working  on  its  missions and  measures,  which  are  very                                                               
detailed.   He  highlighted the  importance of  the missions  and                                                               
measures  being achievable  and measurable.   An  update will  be                                                               
presented in detail at budget committee meetings, he noted.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:12:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON pointed  out that  the legislature  didn't                                                               
adopt any  of the changes  to ADF&G's missions and  measures that                                                               
the department has  been working on over the last  two years.  He                                                               
asked if the department is  working from the statutorily approved                                                               
missions and  measures from  2000 and  2002 or  if it  is working                                                               
from the  current missions  and measures  that have  been updated                                                               
administratively.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ACTING  COMMISSIONER  REGELIN  replied  that  the  department  is                                                               
updating  its  missions and  measures  such  that they  are  more                                                               
focused and achievable.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  requested that the department  continue to                                                               
work on its missions and measures to be adopted statutorily.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:13:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SAMUELS quoted  from  a copy  of  ADF&G's missions  and                                                               
measures   regarding   the   target   for   total   "trip-related                                                               
expenditures  for  fishing,  hunting  and  wildlife  associat[ed]                                                               
recreation  in Alaska."   Co-Chair  Samuels said,  "From 1996  to                                                               
2001   [trip-related  expenditures   for  fishing,   hunting  and                                                               
wildlife associated  recreation in Alaska]  dropped.  And  if the                                                               
target is to increase it...what are you doing to reverse it?"                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:14:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTING  COMMISSIONER  REGELIN  responded  that  participation  in                                                               
wildlife activities has decreased because  of a small decrease in                                                               
nonresident hunters, and  "it is all related to  the abundance of                                                               
wildlife  primarily in  Interior  Alaska, and  we're starting  to                                                               
take  measures   to  turn  that  around   through  management  of                                                               
predators," he related.  However,  it will take some time because                                                               
participation is  difficult to measure.   He said  ADF&G welcomes                                                               
suggestions from the legislature.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:15:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  expressed concern  about how the  department can                                                               
accurately measure abundance or  availability of wildlife to give                                                               
hunters the "hope" that they will be able to harvest.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DOUG MECUM,  Director, Division  of Commercial  Fisheries, Alaska                                                               
Department  of Fish  &  Game, presented  an  overview of  ADF&G's                                                               
commercial fisheries  division.  He detailed  the authorities and                                                               
responsibilities of  the division, which has  about 300 full-time                                                               
and 520  seasonal employees in  four regions and 40  area offices                                                               
around the state.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MECUM stated  that the  division's budget  is a  "status quo                                                               
budget" under  the governor's request,  except for  increases for                                                               
expanding  salmon stock  assessment capabilities  in Cook  Inlet,                                                               
Prince William Sound, and Bristol  Bay, and increases in expenses                                                               
for the employee retirement program.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:21:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM  presented a graph  showing recent  record-level salmon                                                               
production  in  the  state  concomitant with  a  decline  in  the                                                               
monetary value  salmon.   Three years ago  salmon hit  its lowest                                                               
value in  recent time.   Although value has  come up in  the past                                                               
few years, "people are struggling with those problems."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:22:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM provided information regarding  the relative catch size                                                               
and dollar values of state fisheries by species.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:23:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  RAMRAS asked  how involved  the Division  of Commercial                                                               
Fisheries would be if a fish  hatchery for sport fish is built in                                                               
Fairbanks and Anchorage.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM  deferred that  question to  Kelly Hepler,  Division of                                                               
Sport  Fish.   Mr.  Mecum  noted  that  many of  the  performance                                                               
measures that the legislature adopted  for fishery management are                                                               
incorporated by the division.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:24:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  inquired  as  to  the  pressure  the  Board  of                                                               
Fisheries and the department face  to produce higher volumes when                                                               
the monetary  values of  fish decline.   He  also asked  how that                                                               
would impact subsistence and sport anglers.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM responded that he  didn't think there was much pressure                                                               
on the Board of Fisheries  to increase harvest opportunities just                                                               
because  of declining  values.   He related  his belief  that the                                                               
objective is  to maximize available harvest  regardless of value.                                                               
The  board, the  department, and  the legislature  are trying  to                                                               
lower  the focus  on the  number of  fish and  turn attention  to                                                               
value.   He mentioned that  the governor has  increased marketing                                                               
efforts in order  to increase value.  There is  also an effort in                                                               
restructuring  fishing  regulations  to   create  a  more  steady                                                               
harvest that should support higher-end niche markets.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:26:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS inquired  as to the method used  to determine the                                                               
maximum allowable harvest of salmon  for any particular tributary                                                               
or stream.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM  said the  department has fixed  escapement goals.   No                                                               
fishing is allowed until escapement  goals have been reached, and                                                               
these goals are based on  maximum sustained yield determinations.                                                               
He  said the  department uses  a  number of  different models  to                                                               
estimate maximum sustained yield.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  asked if  one  predominant  method is  used  to                                                               
calculate the amount of harvestable salmon.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM said the department  uses the Ricker model--a spawn and                                                               
recruit model  that measures the  production of progeny  based on                                                               
the number of adults that enter the stream.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:28:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER asked about the  number of "cost recovery" programs                                                               
the department is operating.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM  explained that  Chair Wagoner  was referring  to "test                                                               
fish"  programs  under which  the  department  harvests fish  for                                                               
research  purposes and  then sells  those  fish for  money.   The                                                               
legislature  authorized  the  department to  sell  the  otherwise                                                               
wasted fish  as a  way to  fund department  programs.   Mr. Mecum                                                               
said  that this  practice has  raised concerns  around the  state                                                               
when commercial fish  harvesters feel that it is  an indirect tax                                                               
on them.   Also, some people  view it as competition.   Mr. Mecum                                                               
opined that he  is not convinced it is a  sustainable way to fund                                                               
core fishery management programs.   In response to Chair Wagoner,                                                               
Mr.  Mecum said  there  are about  10 of  these  programs in  the                                                               
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  asked  what happens  to  bycatch,  specifically                                                               
salmon inadvertently caught in the pollock fisheries.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MECUM  said that  salmon  caught  in  the Bering  Sea  trawl                                                               
fishery needs to be kept, and  they are generally donated to food                                                               
banks.   He  said there  are  different bycatch  issues for  each                                                               
fishery,  so Senator  Seekin's question  is difficult  to answer.                                                               
However he  noted that the  state has taken a  "fairly aggressive                                                               
position" to limit bycatch, and that it is an ongoing problem.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER related his desire  for the department to work hard                                                               
on longline  bycatch because  of the waste,  and he  suggested it                                                               
may be  a place  for the  state to recoup  money instead  of from                                                               
cost recovery programs.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM  said it  was a good  point.  He  noted that  there are                                                               
rationalization programs underway in the  Bering Sea and the Gulf                                                               
of  Alaska,  which eliminate  the  race  for  fish so  boats  can                                                               
cooperate and trade  bycatch.  They can move off  of "hot spots."                                                               
He  said derby-style  fishing causes  problems because  boats are                                                               
told when and  where to fish.  Whereas under  quota systems, boat                                                               
captains can pick  the time and place to fish,  leading to higher                                                               
quality catch and lower bycatch.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:34:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KELLY   HEPLER,  Director,   Division  of   Sport  Fish,   Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish  & Game, stated the  division's mission, which                                                               
is  to   protect  and   improve  Alaska's   recreational  fishery                                                               
resources.   He said the  division is built around  the following                                                               
core services:  fisheries management, stock  assessment, hatchery                                                               
production, access  development, habitat  assessment, information                                                               
services, enforcement, and planning.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:38:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER  noted  some  challenges the  division  faces.    For                                                               
instance, there  are two  hatcheries in  the Anchorage  area that                                                               
are aging and have had a  25 percent reduction in production.  He                                                               
related  that  the division  has  some  solutions, and  he  looks                                                               
forward  to   working  with  the  legislature   on  solving  such                                                               
problems.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:39:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEPLER turned  to the division's budget, which  is around $43                                                               
million, of which  the primary funding source  is various federal                                                               
receipts.    The federal  excise  tax  contributes the  most,  he                                                               
noted.  Another  large funding source is the Fish  and Game Fund.                                                               
He informed  the committees that  the division employs  220 full-                                                               
time staff and 230 part-time staff  within 3 regions and 14 field                                                               
offices.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN asked Mr. Hepler to elaborate on enforcement.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER  said that  ADF&G  has  a "very  aggressive  training                                                               
program"  for all  of its  staff, which  is coordinated  with the                                                               
Department of Public Safety.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked if  there is  a need  for an  expansion in                                                               
this area.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEPLER  said he would love  to see that, but  deferred to the                                                               
commissioner of the Department of Public Safety.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:43:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER said,  "The state, several years ago,  had a fairly                                                               
good-sized  hatchery program."    He noted  that hatcheries  have                                                               
since   been  closed   or  were   turned   over  to   aquaculture                                                               
associations.    He   stated  his  belief  that   there  are  two                                                               
hatcheries that are "way under utilized."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEPLER  said those hatcheries  are old, and  new technologies                                                               
and knowledge  are needed.   He noted  that those  two facilities                                                               
didn't have the  necessary water and an adequate  footprint.  The                                                               
department is  learning how to  "raise fish better"  by borrowing                                                               
expertise  from  Scandinavia.   He  said  the division  wants  to                                                               
establish a hatchery at Fort Richardson and one in Fairbanks.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:46:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER clarified that he  was referring to [hatcheries] in                                                               
South Central Alaska.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS asked  what  Mr. Hepler  meant  in his  handouts                                                               
regarding  the  division's  coordination with  "other  regulatory                                                               
boards" on fishery management plans and regulations.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.   HEPLER  said   the  department   works  with   the  Federal                                                               
Subsistence Board and the Division  of Forestry, but, by far, the                                                               
Board of Fisheries is the main regulatory board.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS asked  Mr.  Hepler if  his  field personnel  can                                                               
issue citations when they see an obvious infraction.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEPLER answered, "Absolutely."   But there are certain things                                                               
his  department deals  with and  other problems  which the  State                                                               
Troopers  address.   He  noted that  the  two agencies  cooperate                                                               
well.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:49:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS asked what the volume of citations is in a year.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEPLER said he did not know.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS asked  Mr. Hepler to provide a  definition of the                                                               
Ricker method to which Mr. Mecum referred earlier.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  RAMRAS  inquired as  to  the  operating costs  of  fish                                                               
hatcheries.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER  answered that  the  Fairbanks  facility in  Co-Chair                                                               
Ramras'  district  will cost  about  $1.25  million per  year  to                                                               
operate as will the Anchorage facility.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:50:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  RAMRAS   said  Fairbanks  has  expressed   interest  in                                                               
locating, designing, and constructing its  hatchery.  He asked if                                                               
that makes it more complicated or easier for the state.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER answered  that  he  wants the  division  to have  the                                                               
ultimate  responsibility, citing  concerns  with engineering  and                                                               
liability.  He expressed doubts  that Fairbanks will "take it and                                                               
run  with it,"  but  he expects  and  wants the  city  to play  a                                                               
significant role.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:52:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN inquired as to  how many hatcheries the state has                                                               
built  and divested  itself of,  why that  happened, and  why the                                                               
state needs to build more.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER said  he  would  do some  research  and provide  that                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  RAMRAS asked  if the  Division of  Commercial Fisheries                                                               
and the Division  of Sport Fish are completely  separate, and who                                                               
funds them.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEPLER answered  that the funding sources  are different, and                                                               
he gave some examples.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS  said he hopes  the Alaska Department of  Fish &                                                               
Game did  a good  job on  its missions  and measures  because the                                                               
House Finance budget subcommittees will review that.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:55:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATT ROBUS,  Director, Division of Wildlife  Conservation, Alaska                                                               
Department  of Fish  &  Game, informed  the  committees that  the                                                               
division  has  four  regional  offices,  and  he  said  that  the                                                               
backbone of the division is  the area offices where staff conduct                                                               
wildlife   inventories,   censuses,   composition   counts,   and                                                               
population status monitoring.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:58:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBUS  reported that  big game  species like  moose, caribou,                                                               
deer,  and bears  receive the  most public  use and  the greatest                                                               
management  and research  attention from  the division.   In  the                                                               
last  two  years  the  division has  "moved  into  the  intensive                                                               
management realm," implementing four  wolf control programs, with                                                               
a fifth  one being  added soon.   He said  it was  a "substantial                                                               
addition to our  management program."  The  division also focuses                                                               
on furbearers and other species  taken for economic purposes.  He                                                               
briefly  mentioned some  of  the  division's statewide  programs,                                                               
such as  hunter and wildlife  education programs for  the public,                                                               
including firearm  safety, ecology, and  biology.  He  noted that                                                               
the division also runs three  shooting ranges, and it maintains a                                                               
"small waterfowl program."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ROBUS told  the  committees  that the  division  also has  a                                                               
nongame  assessment program  which  can  help prevent  endangered                                                               
species  listings.     Such  listings  could   negatively  impact                                                               
development activities and the ability to harvest other species.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBUS discussed  funding sources such as tags  and other user                                                               
fees, long-term grants under the  federal Pitman-Robertson Act, a                                                               
new annual  grant program that primarily  funds nongame projects,                                                               
and special appropriations from Congress.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:02:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS inquired if state wildlife grants and Pittman-                                                                  
Robertson come  through matching-fund formulas, and  if the state                                                               
is getting the maximum federal dollars available.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBUS  answered that the  programs do come  through matching-                                                               
fund  formulas  and  that  the state  is  receiving  its  maximum                                                               
Pittman-Robertson dollars but not the  maximum for state wildlife                                                               
grants because those were difficult to match.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  asked  how  much  is  available  in  the  state                                                               
wildlife grants.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBUS said about $3 million.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:04:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ROBUS added  that ADF&G  has  communicated with  legislators                                                               
about  its fiscal  challenges.   He  said the  department has  to                                                               
"live  from year  to  year" from  hunting  and fishing  licensing                                                               
monies.   He opined  that there are  near and  long-term negative                                                               
impacts to the  division's core programs.  He stated  a desire to                                                               
see a license-fee increase bill  to fund core wildlife management                                                               
activities.  In  response to Senator Seekins, Mr.  Robus said the                                                               
division spends  about three dollars  for every dollar  the state                                                               
brings  in  for  indoor  shooting ranges.    Outdoor  ranges  are                                                               
cheaper, he noted.   At present time, he said,  the ranges need a                                                               
$600,000 expenditure.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:07:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LANDA   BAILY,  Executive   Director,  Board   of  Game,   Alaska                                                               
Department  of Fish  &  Game, reported  that  the Boards  Support                                                               
Section "does  everything they can"  to keep the  public apprised                                                               
of meetings and  actions, adding that there is a  website for the                                                               
public.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:09:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  asked if the  Board Support Section  is properly                                                               
funded.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. BAILEY  said it is  operating on less  than it was  two years                                                               
ago.   She reported  that the division  is requesting  a $100,000                                                               
budget increase because it is not  able to do everything, such as                                                               
holding its meetings in smaller towns and villages.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS opined  that the job is larger than  "we are able                                                               
to accomplish" with the current funding.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:13 to 2:15.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
^Department of Natural Resources                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:15:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TOM IRWIN,  Commissioner, Department of Natural  Resources (DNR),                                                               
said he  would present  information to  give an  understanding of                                                               
the department's responsibilities.   He said DNR's  mission is to                                                               
develop,  conserve,   and  maximize   use  of   Alaska's  natural                                                               
resources, consistent with the public interest.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:18:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  IRWIN reported  that DNR  follows its  missions and                                                               
measures, and  updates them quarterly.   He characterized  DNR as                                                               
the "business arm of the state."   He told the committee that DNR                                                               
ensures  resource  development,  planning,  management,  and  new                                                               
project  approvals based  on sound  science, prudent  management,                                                               
and  meaningful public  involvement.   He  said  DNR follows  the                                                               
principles   of   resource    sustainability   and   multiple-use                                                               
management.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER IRWIN maintained that  businesses come to Alaska for                                                               
high investment return,  cash flow, and security.   He quoted the                                                               
"Wall Street  Journal" as follows:  "Government is a key  part of                                                               
society and  vital to  all of us,  but it makes  no money  on its                                                               
own.  Successful businesses are  the engine of a healthy economy,                                                               
and  government is  a  support for  that  engine."   Commissioner                                                               
Irwin  believes resource  development is  the economic  engine of                                                               
Alaska.  "That is where our value  is at," he said, and the state                                                               
understands it has  a vital role in creating  a positive business                                                               
environment  by  providing  certainty and  reliability,  reducing                                                               
delays, and eliminating unnecessary standards.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  IRWIN  said  that  the  Alaska  Coastal  Management                                                               
Program  (ACMP) was  moved to  DNR to  streamline the  process of                                                               
permit development in coastal Alaska  and make it more objective.                                                               
He complemented  his staff on  their hard  work.  He  pointed out                                                               
that  DNR  took on  habitat  management  duties from  the  Alaska                                                               
Department  of Fish  & Game,  and last  year the  office operated                                                               
with 18  percent less staff  and an  11 percent lower  budget but                                                               
still exceeded  its targets.  He  said that more than  99 percent                                                               
of  the   applications  for  Title  41   permits  were  approved.                                                               
Commissioner Irwin said  he did not hear one  elevation, and "the                                                               
sky didn't  fall" when ADF&G's  Division of Habitat was  moved to                                                               
DNR.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:23:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER IRWIN discussed initiatives,  and added that DNR has                                                               
a  new approach  to  expedite large  mine permits.    He gave  an                                                               
example of  a company coming to  Alaska that was able  to drill a                                                               
well within a year of its lease purchase.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:25:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER IRWIN  handed out an  organizational flow  chart for                                                               
DNR, and pointed  out what he thought were key  issues.  He said,                                                               
"Parks  could  take a  whole  session."    Alaska has  4  million                                                               
visitors  to its  parks.   Alaskans  comprise 80  percent of  the                                                               
visitation.   "Our goal is  to keep  [the parks] open,"  he said.                                                               
Agriculture  will  have a  new  director.   He  said  significant                                                               
issues include mad  cow disease in Canada,  problems with closing                                                               
the border  with Canada, milk prices,  and others.  He  turned to                                                               
oil and gas  and highlighted what he saw as  major issues: Alaska                                                               
has significant  gas reserves and  an opportunity to build  a gas                                                               
line.  He  related his belief that operations have  to be managed                                                               
well and  "as a business."   With the Department of  Revenue, DNR                                                               
developed a complex economic model to analyze the gas line.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   IRWIN   opined   that   another   key   issue   is                                                               
TransCanada's  application for  a  gas line  right-of-way to  the                                                               
border.   He  said that  the public  commented on  a draft  lease                                                               
produced by DNR,  and that comments were  generally supportive of                                                               
a gas  line.  Comments  focused on Native hire,  community access                                                               
to the gas, and disturbance to wildlife.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:31:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER IRWIN  reported that DNR's  Division of Oil  and Gas                                                               
conducted  fieldwork on  the  Alaska  Peninsula with  encouraging                                                               
results.   DNR is  moving forward  on an oil  and gas  lease sale                                                               
there.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:33:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER IRWIN informed  the committees that DNR  was able to                                                               
open  the coastal  plain three  week earlier  than usual,  giving                                                               
producers  20 percent  more time  in the  field.   The department                                                               
also  worked with  Conoco-Phillips Alaska,  Inc. to  pre-pack ice                                                               
roads in advance  of the "tundra opening," giving  them more time                                                               
to build roads.   He said "this type of  innovation between state                                                               
and  business" can  help  move forward  the  state's business  of                                                               
developing its gas.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:36:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  IRWIN stated  that  current large  mines in  Alaska                                                               
include  Red Dog,  Greens Creek,  Usabelli, Fort  Knox, and  True                                                               
North mines.   The Pogo project is under  construction, and there                                                               
is headway in  other potential large mines.  He  said that Alaska                                                               
mineral exploration is increasing because  the price of ore is up                                                               
and  the state's  business environment  is better.   Last  fiscal                                                               
year  over 4,300  new state  mining claims  were located.   Since                                                               
July 1, another  2,500 claims were located.  The  total staked in                                                               
15 months was 880,000 acres, he said.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:38:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  IRWIN discussed  the Northern  Alaska Environmental                                                               
Center's (NAEC) appeal  of mining activity at the Pogo  mine.  He                                                               
said  government and  businesses cooperated  to convince  NAEC to                                                               
withdraw its  appeal.   "If there is  any doubt  that responsible                                                               
resource  development  is  welcome  in Alaska,  then  that  doubt                                                               
should have been totally removed," he said.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:39:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER IRWIN moved on to  Alaskan timber issues.  He opined                                                               
that the  Tongass National Forest  should be  "responsibly open."                                                               
Although the  state does  not control this  issue, he  thinks the                                                               
state can  push it.  "I  think it is  a travesty when you  have a                                                               
renewable  resource...let it  get  old, get  infested, rot,  have                                                               
huge fire potential, and never get  the real value out of it," he                                                               
remarked.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:41:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  IRWIN  said  that  the  state  has  a  priority  in                                                               
transferring state  lands to private  ownership.  In  fiscal year                                                               
2004, revenue for land sales was  over $7 million, the highest in                                                               
15 years.   He  stated that  DNR has a  target of  moving 500,000                                                               
acres of state land to municipalities in 2005.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:44:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER IRWIN  reported that  DNR has filed  13 applications                                                               
for  recordable  disclaimers  with  the federal  Bureau  of  Land                                                               
Management (BLM).   The applications  cover 31 water  bodies, and                                                               
BLM  has  issued  disclaimers  for  three  of  the  applications.                                                               
Commissioner  Irwin   said  that   these  are  the   first  three                                                               
recordable  disclaimers   in  the   nation,  which   he  believes                                                               
establishes a pattern.   Alaska is "establishing  our rights," he                                                               
remarked.   The  department  was "less  successful" with  Revised                                                               
Statute  2477, and  DNR is  working with  the Attorney  General's                                                               
office on lawsuits "to establish state's rights."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  IRWIN reported  that  6.4 million  acres burned  in                                                               
Alaska in  2004.  There  were over 3,000 firefighters  working in                                                               
Alaska, and  there were no serious  injuries to report.   But not                                                               
everything went right, said Commissioner  Irwin, and he suggested                                                               
that   the  legislature   have  discussions   on  fire,   and  he                                                               
recommended reading "FIRE IN ALASKA,  A HISTORY OF ORGANIZED FIRE                                                               
SUPPRESSION IN THE LAST FRONTIER."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:48:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  IRWIN acknowledged  that fires  are going  to burn,                                                               
pointing out that  Alaska had a record  12,000 lightening strikes                                                               
in  one day  last year.   He  stated his  belief that  some fires                                                               
should be left to burn and some  need to be suppressed.  He noted                                                               
that  increasing  numbers of  homes  and  development expand  the                                                               
critical response areas,  which are costly to  protect from fire.                                                               
He  warned that  the Anchorage  Bowl  and the  Kenai "could  have                                                               
California-type fires."  He mentioned a "fire-wise" program.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:52:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  thanked Commissioner Irwin for  getting the Pogo                                                               
mine back going.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:52 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the Joint                                                               
meeting of the House Resources  Standing Committee and the Senate                                                               
Resources  Standing Committee  was adjourned  at 3:00:15  PM.   A                                                           
lesson on natural gas following this meeting was not recorded.                                                                  

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